Improved AI System, Supported by AIG?

Hi, MSFS is an amazing product, but of course like everything, it’s not perfect. A topic that has been discussed a lot is AI traffic, with the correct models and liveries, at the right airports. I feel like the AI traffic in FSX was slightly better, just the way it functioned, For Example:
. The Ai flared before touchdown
. The Ai flew better (didn’t fly over the airport when supposed to land)
. There was lots of Ai, giving life to the airport

Just to name a few.

I am aware that Asobo are working on their own models and liveries, but It would be spectacular if this Ai was supported by AIG (Alpha India Group). AIG make offline and Online AI traffic. They have extremely good skills at making AI traffic, especially for P3D. Without AIG, or any AI traffic, airports are somewhat lifeless. Landing at an airport with no other aircraft is strange, with an Improved AI system supported by AIG, this could be the best AI traffic in any sim!

Please Asobo, partner up with AIG, or at least give them some support. Ai traffic plays a vital role, and many people wish to have improved Ai traffic. AIG is perfect for this. If they can do a perfect Job in other sims, then they can definitely do it for this sim!

For an overview:
. AIG make Offline and Online Ai traffic
. They have made perfect traffic in previous sims
. AIG traffic has all the right liveries and models
. AIG’s traffic performs very well

This is not just an ordinary topic to improve Ai traffic, but a topic for Ai traffic to be supported by trusted, skilled 3rd party developers. Your vote makes a difference! :slight_smile:

I agree 100%. Absolutely no immersion.

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Agree. Lets hope Asobo wants to partner up with AIG. Its the best for AI traffic period :+1:

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Agree that would be cool

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A partnership would be really difficult because of the licensing issues. Unless liveries are excluded and we are talking ONLY about AI system here, I do not see how this is even possible. Jorg stated multiple times that they will not put unlicensed liveries in the game.

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Agreed 100%

It is about the SDK to make AI work. The models and liveries must not be licensed from MS/Asobo.

Just help AIG to get their stuff done.

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Do they do GA aircraft at small, uncontrolled airports as well?

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I just want VOXATC to work correctly with MSFS. The VOXATC developer has been communicating with Asobo about problems controlling AI aircraft in MSFS via SimConnect. I believe that Alpha India Group (the maker of most AI liveries for FSX and P3d5) has also expressed similar concerns.

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Considering AIG’s unwillingness to work with other developers, and the fact that they literally caused FLAi to shut down in order to try and damage another group that they wrongly saw as competition, IMHO they’re likely the last people Asobo should work with. Drama isn’t exactly the best business card for this kind of collaboration.

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You should really avoid commenting seeing as how skewed your view of that scenario is.

First of all, AIG didn’t do anything. It was the individual painters who pulled permissions from FLAi after they found their work being used in ways that weren’t originally agreed upon years prior.

Secondly, AIG offered to come to a constructive solution that the painters and FLAi could agree upon, but ultimately talks fell apart and the FLAi group took it upon themselves to close up shop. Nor the painters or AIG made them do that.

Thirdly, AIG has been trying to find a solution to fill the void that FLAi left. AIG has even been in talks with the VATSIM board about a solution but nothing has been fruitful as of yet.

But please continue dragging AIG’s name in the mud as if they haven’t been offering tools that have made the best AI end product out there for FREE for the better part of 20 years.

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To the surprise of no one, considering the precedent.

Of course the “Individual painters” pulled permissions all together all on their own, without any prompting or encouraging right? I’ve found quite funny to see how some from AIG has continued to try to deny any responsibility for the closure of FLAI, while it’s obvious to basically everyone that they certainly had a big hand in the drama. In any case, I have no intention of engaging in a game of he said, she said. The article I linked above reports the issue rather well, and it’s fair that Asobo is provided relevant information about this proposal. If you think the article is unfair, feel free to contact FSelite.

That being said, Asobo doesn’t really need support on this. Nothing required by AI is especially difficult to implement having access to the core of the simulation, and in fact it has already been improved quite nicely, with the live AI being nearly flawless in spawning the correct flights nowadays. The rest is just a matter of tweaking the data and the physical behavior, the spawning behaviors, adding liveries, and models. Nothing of this is beyond Asobo’s capabilities. We aren’t talking about something as complex as a full autopilot system.

More improvements will come as mentioned in the livestream in January and reiterated in the latest a few days ago. Thinking that Asobo somehow needs help in this is frankly not giving them enough credit. The fact that the AI shipped barebones isn’t due to inability, but simply that it wasn’t considered a core part of the initial product, as the developers explained.

The rest isn’t a matter of involving the community. It’s a legal matter. Asobo already said they won’t include any livery or any model in the simulator they are not provided the license for (and I mean the license from airlines and aircraft manufacturers), and they’re gradually working to obtain those licenses. Incidentally, liveries and models will have to be done to the standard fitting the simulator, which is unlikely anything done by any AI group so far.

So this is basically a moot point. If any, they should open up the system and provide tools so that groups (and third-party developers) can independently create and release their own solutions, likely quicker than Asobo will do restrained as they are by the level of quality and legality that is required by an official product.

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It is not about including all of this AI in MSFS - this would not be possbile because of the legal restrictions (Airlines, Painters, Modellers, …) That the reason AI Addons have always been 3rd party addons. (Btw the whole AI setup is currently 100GB, no need to force this size on every user^^).
The bennefit for MS/ASOBO and AIG from such partnership wpould be that the experiance of over 20 years of AI Traffic from AIG can improve the development/features in MSFS on the one hand and on the other it would allow AIG to develop features based on the interfaces/SDK provided by MSFS.
→ In the end it is all about getting the best to the enduser :slight_smile:

We are working on GA traffic at the moment, focussing on the big jets at the moment, becuase there are more or less not so many models for smaller GA traffic, but with the focus change in MSFS (more to VFR) we can support smaller GA traffic as well (for that we need models, repaints and flightplans).

We are far from SimConnect, each update is causing problems with the basic SimObjects, so this needs to be fixed before I can actual start planing the migration og AIGTC to MSFS. And then I need to hope that all features provided by P3D/FSX are supported by MSFS in any way.

Have you ever worked on an AI logic? Basically AI is an extendet Autopilot.

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Please, let’s not exaggerate the issue. The flight dynamics of AI aircraft have always been extremely simplified compared to an actual autopilot. If it was something even remotely comparable, the demand on hardware resources would be ludicrous.

If you think Asobo can’t do this, and needs some sort of magical helping hand, you’re seriously underestimating the ability of professionals.

If that was the case, the drama happened a few months ago would have never happened.

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that is one part of AI - I had talked about the internal AI logic that is even far more inside the core of the Sim then the FDE.

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Most of the AI “logic” comes from Flightaware. The rest is a matter of giving the AI instructions so that it does what Flightaware dictates and can fill the possible data gaps. It has a lot more to do with ATC than it does with the autopilot and it’s pretty much simply a set of instructions interacting with simplified flight dynamics.

The built-in AI already does a pretty good job of this, considering that it’s a barebones system. All it needs is to be able to resolve traffic conflicts and go around, flaring correctly on landing, and apply the proper speeds and accelerations instead of having catch-all ones. On top of having parked aircraft depending on what flightaware knows is at the airport instead of random liveries and models.

Again. It has nothing at all to do with an autopilot system, and it’s most definitely nothing beyond Asobo’s capabilities. They have created the best flight simulator on the market. They aren’t some randos picked from the street.

It’s fantastic that Asobo decided to hire Working Title to help with something that’s extremely complex and multifaceted, freeing resources to do other things, but let’s not turn that into the fallacious assumption that they can do nothing on their own.

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Well thats a twist…He (VOXATC) hasn’t communicated with anyone in all the years his product has been out. ( at least those of us that have doled out our hard earned cash…

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Here, Here to AIG…they got my vote and a few coins but its Free and they are the BEST!!!

BobM.

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You got my vote,live traffic and default AI it’s abismal on this sim.

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I agree 100%. We need AIG Traffic :slight_smile:

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Voted, as obviously for the moment nobody except AIG could provide Asobo with proper AI traffic solutions and hints.

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