Seeking advice on VR headset purchase

[Bevilax]

Dear community,

I am seeking your wisdom and advice once again
After being a flgihtsim enthusiast for 20 years, for the first time last weekend I have tried VR with a Samsung Odissey+ headset which I have borrowed from a good friend.

WOW! I remained literally astonished at the level of realism and immersion this thing gives you! I got so excited, I immediately decided I would buy one for myself.

My current configuration is i7 10700K + RTX3090 with 32GB high performance RAM.

Now, which headset shall I buy?

After having read a few posts/reviews, I am somewhat interested in the Reverb G2, but I am a bit afraid of a few things I read. G2 seems to have a poor Field of View and tracking is reported to be also quite poor. On the other hand, I read everywhere that the crispness and resolution of this headset is amazing. How important are all of these factors?

I would appreciate some comments/thoughts on this.

VR is really incredible and I would like to encourage people that have never tried it to have a try, because it is just a jaw-drop[ping experience.

Thanks a bunch!

[SamuraiSax]

I will vouch for the Reverb G2. The field of view is not “poor.” It is admittedly a few millimeters narrower than the Valve Index but it holds up well against the Quest 2. At least for me (and I have both headsets). The crispness, colors and sound quality can’t be beat. It does take some time and patience to get it set up properly–it’s the furthest thing from plug-n-play I’ve ever used, but once it is set up right it’s great. It’s also the most comfortable VR headset I’ve ever worn.

As far as tracking is concerned, some may have issues with the controller tracking since there are only two camera sensors on the headset. This may be a minor issue if you play game that requires a lot of quick and dramatic movements (bow shooting, throwing things, etc.), but in MSFS you don’t use the controllers at all so tracking is never an issue.

I’m not saying that you won’t have frustrations with it. I certainly went though lots of aggravation trying to get it to work just right. But when I finally got it set up correctly I fell in love and I now fly happily in VR for hours a day.

Hope this helps.

[Bevilax]

amazing support SS, thanks so much for taking the time.

[UUhiskeyRivr]

I’ve been thinking of switching from the Rift S. Money’s always tight though, so I’m just not sure.

[ClayishCoast9]

One additional comment on the G2 tracking (talking about the headset motion, not controllers). Since it uses the on-board cameras to monitor the environment you’re sitting in, it’s very sensitive to lighting. It it’s too dark, then it doesn’t work (translation starts to go off first, and then it starts to ‘jump’). But also, if the cameras encounter any very bright lights it will get tripped up … found that my office ceiling light (which is bright) would cause ‘jumping’ too. I use an uplighter placed behind where I sit; and with that, no more problems with head motion tracking at all.

[FireSwing867334]

If simming is your main use then there really is no better choice currently than the Reverb G2-with your high spec rig you will get better results than with any other VR headset-the first experience of VR is mind boggling isn’t it just!!
if you thought the Odyssyey was good be prepared to be blown away by the reverb G2

[CptLucky8]

I’ve posted number of posts about the G2 and the Index (I own both). I’ve lately posted the following in a private discussion which might help you too:

As for the Index honestly it has less resolutions than the G2 and it shows, for sure, but mostly in flight simulation. Playing other games like HLA, Pavlov, Onward, and many others, I never felt it lacking pixels at all (maybe you get the edge in Pavlov when aiming at the distance with a G2 though). The most striking difference to me is immersion and completeness. In short: you don’t feel like something is lacking. It is a well rounded and complete VR experience in every way, with stellar tracking, unbeatable controllers (for anything other than flight simulation it matters), and so much tweaking and low level configurations. I don’t even need a controller to change SteamVR settings on the fly because there is a controller button right on the headset itself, working as a point and click interface! It is very handy to quickly disable/enable motion smoothing live (no need to exit VR…), to change fixed frame rate on demanding sceneries while still flying, etc… (I’m playing the salesman here!)

So resolution is indeed lower and to give you an idea what it looks like, set your G2 OXR to 45% and TAA 100. This is what I see in the Index roughly. For example in the TBM I can read the ITT green numbers from the normal seated position, but this is at the limit between reading and decoding number shapes. Please note this is what I see (OXR 45 on G2 vs SS 124 on Index) but you’ll see this at a small center region only in the G2, while I see this level of detail roughly +80% of the view left from right and top to bottom… (vs 15% on the G2 for me).

Beyond the mere resolution though, you get larger horizontal FOV and even more vertical FOV than the G2, with smaller black sides between your temporal region and the LCD panel making it less a goggle you see through and more an immersive be there experience.

The Index has more glare though and some are not fond of this. I didn’t until I set my mind as if I’m being blind folder by the sun and that’s it (like IRL nowadays at my ‘old’ age where a bright screen in a dark room is sensibly less bearable than when I was younger )

There is one thing I don’t like with the Index in FS2020 compared to the G2, and this is the color gamut*. Both panels are sRGB with about the same coverage on paper, but the Index is white clipping a little more, enough to see the difference. Otherwise the luminosity is about the same between the G2 and the Index when set at 130% (the default - yes you can also adjust this in the Index along with RGB gains), but when you set the Index at 160% and look at the sun in FS2020, or have a bloom effect on a mirror surface, it is so life like you blink the eyes!

Here is one of my post comparing the Index and the G2 in practice with an aircraft cockpit for reference (about the edge to edge clarity) which also contains other useful info:

Reverb G2 Sweet Spot Discovery - #41 by CptLucky8

Otherwise I’ve done a few flights lately over UK aboard the WT CJ4 (first time using the WT version). It was certainly taxing a little more my system as exhibited by more wobbling with motion smoothing. And this is where the Index again is superior: not only the latest SteamVR allows incredible 5 to 1 motion smoothing (15fps → 90Hz for example), but with the headset mounted controller button, it takes a few seconds adjusting this live:

• you notice wobbles
• you press the button and SteamVR overlay displays
• you move the head to point the dot to “Display Settings” and press the button
• you move the head to point the dot on the scroll bar and press the button to scroll down
• you adjust the fixed rate from say 22.5 (my usual value) to 18 (for this test)
• you press the button while looking outside the SteamVR overlay popup
• you’re back in the sim and no more wobbles!

Very handy I can even do this hand flying now without pausing the sim.

This is an example of what I call “immersion and completness” with the Index.

PS: and with the WT CJ4, at TAA 100 + SS 124 the EFIS were super clear and very legible even with the Index. I couldn’t be more happy, really.

---

*this is why I’ve asked for Asobo to include settings to adjust the color gamut too
[BUG/FEATURE] Provide a Sharpen strength setting, and more post-processing effect controls in VR

[SlidHydra647449]

Ive been debating this question too. Have a Oculus Rift S, and it has fairly decent VR experience, with each latest update, the numbers in the cockpit are easier to read.

But the FOV is narrow, and the colors ( specially towards the horizon and distance / sky colors) are very washed out or too white/ over exposed.

Was wondering about the Pimax, 8kX but its a big $$$$ to swallow.

Was looking at the G2 also. I assume it is a step up from the Oculus Rift S ?

[RebuffedBee9595]

I’m also trying to figure this out, it is difficult to try to compare the description of other people’s experiences and particularly when using different hardware and settings. But as deciding to go for a full spec VR setup will probably cost £3.5k I’m trying to do all the research I can! I am particularly considering the Quest 2 and Reverb G2, as the Index is expensive and hard to get in the UK, and the Rift S has much lower resolution (although apparently this means the performance is very good, so is a good option if you have a lower spec PC and are happy with the lower resolution)

It would be great if anyone who has tried both headsets could comment if the below summary is correct? I have only tried the Q2 in standalone mode (not flight sim) and have never tried the G2

Comfort
Consensus Reverb G2 is best

Built in audio
Consensus Reverb G2 is best

Colour quality
Consensus Reverb G2 is best

Field of view size
Consensus Quest 2 is best

Clarity/resolution in "sweet spot"
Consensus Reverb G2 is best

Here’s where it starts to get more tricky:

Size of “sweet spot” and clarity outside of "sweet spot"

G2- CptLucky reports the G2 sweet spot size as around the size of the attitude gauge in the C172 at normal seated position. The immediately surrounding gauges are becoming blurry on the near side and quite blurry on the far side. The RPM gauge which is further away is too blurry to read at a glance.

Please read his excellent post for additional further comparison with the Index.
Reverb G2 Sweet Spot Discovery - #41 by CptLucky8
Reverb G2 Sweet Spot Discovery - #54 by CptLucky8

Q2 - TonyTazer reports a large sweet spot, with reference to the image below:

• green dot: absolutely clear
• amber dot: still readable, but focusing/reading feels exhausting, tempted to lean in
• red dot: not readable

He believes the “sweet spot” of the Q2 covers around 50% of the field of view, something I also found when trying the Q2 in standalone mode.

See his excellent post for further details:
TnT Quest 2 Settings - Sharp and SMOOOOTH! - #61 by TonyTazer1504

So from the above two posts it seems that it is not possible to read a standard 6 pack of instruments or PFD in the G2 without moving your head to move the sweet spot, whereas it is readable in the Q2 due to the larger sweet spot. However, there is suggestion on the above thread that the G2 sweet spot size varies depending on system settings, and I also note that VR Flight Sim Guy commented on one of his videos that he could read “everything” in the G2, albeit without the detailed descriptions provided by CptLucky. To me it sounds like the Q2 would be preferable - lower quality in the sweet spot, but the sweet spot is still clear enough to read instruments and importantly big enough to read multiple instruments.

Performance
I understand that the Q2 connects via a USB cable or via wireless “virtual desktop” and which means there is an additional encoding step to do, which comes with a slight performance hit. However I have also heard that the Q2 may be smoother than the G2 at lower frame rates due to better reprojection, and therefore allows higher graphics settings or lower PC spec. I am not sure about this though - would be great if anyone can shed further light !

Other things to note
Quest 2 allows you to play built in games without connecting to PC, in “standalone mode”
Quest 2 is significantly cheaper at £300 vs £600
Quest 2 can connect wirelessly as mentioned above
I think I read Quest 2 controllers are better, but these aren’t implemented in flight sim yet so doesnt really impact

[CptLucky8]

Just to stir the pot a little bit more…

I can’t run this with a 2070S (maybe with a 3090?) but the Index at TAA 200% + SS 100 is giving me so much details it competes with the G2 seriously. At this level, the signal/pixel is excellent and it still won’t magically create higher def panels, but if you can’t run the G2 at 100% with a 3090 you won’t benefit from its higher res either. The main difference is that with super sampling 200% with an Index, you’re starting to be above the Nyquist frequency theory whereas with the G2 under 100%, you’re not, and this shows.

Something very important to note as well is tracking, and I’m not talking about controller tracking but headset tracking for this discussion. The G2 is constantly lagging and it is as if the entire world is attached to your head with rubbers. There is a dampening and elastic reaction fighting against any single head movement. Maybe less so if you have a more powerful CPU/GPU but I’m not even sure there isn’t any residual lag/dampening no matter what. The effect is that you don’t entirely feel there and this reminds you’re looking through a device.

The Index tracking is simply perfect. No matter what direction and speed you move, the world is static and stays exactly where it is supposed to be. No lag, no dampening, just like in the real world. You’re completely forgetting you’re looking though a device (let alone the extra FOV contributing to it as well). But more importantly you don’t feel dizzy or anything else, it just feels and looks right.

And all this discussion is about FS2020 of course, but if you play other VR games…

You are right it is more expensive, but not much considering what you get. Honestly I wanted the G2 to be my driver for simulation, after having been able to compare the G1 and the Index. I’ve returned my G1 when they announced the G2 but I’m really starting to regretting. The G1 was not lagging as much, it’s 100% render scale was close to panel resolution (not 150% like the G2 because of its optics) and was therefore less taxing the resources, it was only suffering from chromatic aberrations compared to the Index. But since the latest(s) WMR are now including an Anti-CA filter which seems to be effective with the G1 too, as some have reported in these forums, the G1 is even a better value proposition than before at ½ the price if you can get your hands on one. It won’t have the G2 audio (which by the way are maybe the same Index headphones but not as good sound processing - DSP - nor positioning over the ears as in the Index, which got them slanted to match the ear angle…)

All this to say even with lower res in theory (panels alone) I get nearly enough resolution in practice in the center because I can’t run the G2 at 100% (which is 150% its panel res) and I get more resolution at the periphery with solid tracking and immersive experience with the Index. The G2 forces you to rotate the head to read, the Index let’s you move the eyes only most often. It just feels natural vs synthetic.

I probably won’t ever experience a Q2 because I don’t want my life nor my computer having anything to do with the company behind it, but I’d like to because there seems to be good implementation details with this headset when compared to the G2. One thing I know for sure, if Valve is hitting the market with a new headset, I already have the base stations and the knuckles and I’ll certainly get one eyes closed (well I’ll open them once I wear the headset otherwise… ). I also know for sure I will never again buy anything HP (not even a printer but I took this decision a long time ago already).

PS: you might want to wait a few more months for the DecaGear…

[FireSwing867334]

Thanks for your views on the index-interesting indeed
May I ask what CPU and GPU you use?
Also how do x-plane11 and P3Dv5 run on your system (if you have them that is)

[CptLucky8]

My test hardware is documented in any “My VR Settings” topics

XP11 and P3D5 running really well. I didn’t use VR recently on the former though (just once with the G2 to check it was working but didn’t really spend time) and I did use VR not long ago once with the latter. I really don’t fly P3D5 unless for testing new RXP GTN and GNS V2 updates, prior FS2020 I flew XP11 exclusively when it was not for work.

[Bevilax]

Guys,

Thanks for all the suggestions.
Well, my G2 arrived today, I tested it for a few hours, and decided to put it back in the box and return it.

My impressions (without being an expert on the matter, and after only trying an Odissey+):

The positives:

1. Light and very comfortable
2. Very good definition in the sweet spot

The negatives:

1. This is the main reason I decided not to keep this headset: the sweet spot is soooo small, most of the FOV is very blurry. Played around with the eye distance setting, no joy. Disappointing.

2. Too many cables, they get in the way. This is not a spaghetti party.

3. To save 100 Eur I had bought the version without controllers and I started regretting this the moment I opened the box…and found no controllers

4. I did not get double the pleasure compared to the Odissey+ which is worth half the price of a g2.

I am thankful for having had the opportunity to try this, I would have hated not trying the g2. I will now try the Quest 2, hopefully I’ll borrow it from a good friend before buying it. Seems to be a decent headset, at a reasonable price, less cables…and with controllers

[FireSwing867334]

That’s a shame-well I guess at least you got a learning experience-bear in mind that msfs doesn’t support controllers at present

[RebuffedBee9595]

Thanks for the update. Out of interest, do you remember if you were able to get the OpenXR and in sim Render Scaling near/at 100?

As per the other topic Reverb G2 Sweet Spot Discovery , many people are reporting a large sweetspot if you are able to run them both near 100

[Bevilax]

Yeah I set open XR render scale at 100 and also MSFS at 100.
Sweet spot too small, it was hurting my eyes. I am not willing to move my head that much to read numbers. On the side of the lenses it was really unbearable, so blurry!

So I prefer to have less resolution but more performance, larger FOV and bigger sweet spot

Thanks again to all for the friendly advices

[whitav8]

Great discussions! I have used the G1 and the G2 and the Q2. If I didn’t have any VR set - or a somewhat older unit - I would just get a Q2 for $300USD (and open a Facebook account - ouch!) simply because I can evaluate three different VR modes for very little finances:

1. Self standing - no PC - and no wires at all. Many games - Oculus approved payware and freeware on Sidequest. Wonderful to be free! Great new WWI mission and multiplayer combat game for $15 called Warplanes - no PC at all
2. Wireless to a PC with Virtual Desktop - nearly 2000x2000 resolution and reasonable performance with many PC games including HLA and MSFS2020 . No wires!
3. Wired connection (Oculus Link) using inexpensive ($20 from Amazon et al) cable and Oculus software system.

[ImXLXL]

Best headset for MSFS 2020: Reverb G2.

Best PC headset: Valve Index.

Best all-around headset: Quest 2.

I have all 3 and love them all. But if I could have only 1, it’d be Quest 2. As others have pointed out, it functions as a standalone, wired PC and wireless PC headset. It currently dominates the VR market, and is THE ONE that’ll make VR mainstream.

[RebuffedBee9595]

Can anyone comment on how the clarity and smoothness of Quest 2 Flight Sim compares to the Quest 2 standalone games like Warplanes and Ultrawings ? I guess they are running at full native res and 90 hz, so flight sim doesnt look as good as these?

[ImXLXL]

“Performance” is not in the vocabulary of Quest 2 standalone users. Games are strictly curated and things just work – even more so than a console.

However, since Quest is a mobile device, games on it all have simple and cartoonish graphics. You can’t really compare them.