SU5 graphics quality

It’s actually funny to read that.

I started a business selling 3d-printed flight sim controllers, and we’re currently in what I call “pre-order” mode. That can mean a lot of things to a lot of people, but one thing it means for sure is “it’s gonna be awhile until you get your product”.

So I had a customer order a yoke, and as a brand new company, obviously we love every single order we get, so we were happy. But then, less than a week after placing his order, he emailed me about when it was going to arrive, and when I gave him a realistic guess, he cancelled his order because his expectation was no more than two weeks. I never said anything to him, but in my mind I’m thinking, “Are you serious? 2 weeks for a PRE-ORDER ITEM??? It just doesn’t work that way!”

The post you reminded us all of kinda reminds me of that customer. Should anyone be curious about what we sell, drop me a PM and I’ll send you our website address.

EDIT: And to add to that thought, I’m pretty sure every single update that has come out has had a “the sky is falling, and MSFS sucks now” reaction in this forum. But then the next patch comes out, and some of those very same people are then saying “This new patch sucks, and MSFS sucks now, I want to go back to the prior version!”

If it wasn’t so sad, it would be funny. But it’s like @TwoSuitz was saying, if you have a specific issue, out with it and see if someone might actually be able to help. But the chicken little “the sky is falling” routine is no good for nobody. Frankly, a lot of is is straight up bravo sierra, like the myth that won’t die about the PC version being handcuffed by the Xbox versions memory restrictions. It makes the forum look bad, it makes the product look bad, and I’m surprised the powers that be allow so much of it. It’s one thing if you’ve got a legit complaint, there are many who do. But just to pile on, over and over and over again with the outright falsehoods and just frankly abusing MS and Asobo for stuff that, in a large majority of cases is not their fault just doesn’t belong.

Oh, well, their house, their rules.

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You should NOT feel bad. Not at all. And I never saw any PC simmer say that Xbox users should feel bad. Not one post (that I have read) has stated anything at all against Xbox users.

We are complaining about MS/Asobo. They sold US a product with amazing graphics, incredible real-world weather (when it worked) etc… But then they downgraded our experience (apparently for most, but NOT for all) and even made it totally unusable for some after we have spent a year supporting it and pumping money into their pockets.

Like another post’s analogy…imagine you bought a car. The dealer shop upgrades your car every time you take it in for your free oil change. Then one day, you take it in and they rip out the engine and replace it with one of lesser quality because the new car they are selling isn’t as nice as yours. You would never allow this and it’s quite illegal (at least it is in the USA.)

You will complain and throw a fit. You may even say something about the people that buy the lesser new car. But you’re not mad at those people. You’re mad at the company.

I honestly don’t think anyone (disgruntled PC simmers) are angry with Xbox Users.

Greg

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For making the car more accessible and more performant to more people, so more people will be buying? And the reaction is to come here on the forums to complain how the car was destroyed for everyone, even though they only downtuned some aspects of the engine that only you were able to use before?

Thanks Captain, I had a quick try with Ray Tracing 1 and had no impact for me. I am wondering how people can have different settings for this though, makes me wonder if some of us maybe had a read-only file at the time the sim changed one of these hidden settings? Would it be possible for either you or Kevy to please PM me the full cfg file and I would try with that?

Other minor comments

I have tried different render scalings in 2d and VR without fixing the aliasing. My standard is 100 in VR on Quest 2

FYI mine was also 0 in 2d and 0.05 in VR, maybe the 0 comes from the ultra preset?

Here I have everything disabled, which is partly why I am interested to try someone else’s full healthy config file :slight_smile: FYI there is a youtube video here advocating that FilmGrain makes an important impact on image and should be off, in 2d at least. [ Graphics Fix for Sim Update 5 - How to Get Your High Quality Visuals Back | MSFS - YouTube ]

I have gone between 100 (my SU4 settings) to 200 (to try to combat pop in) and havent seen any impact on the aliasing

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Then please help. As I said, I got a too soft picture in VR since the update.
True the Lens images are always bad, but you can guess it.
Since SU05 I can only read small letters badly.
Above the blue digital display no longer at all (SU04 it worked, albeit with difficulty) Even with zoom I can no longer read it.
(LOD 110%, Render Resolution 3600x3100pix)

The second picture is the same cockpit (only different colors) in DCS with the same rendering resolution.
Ok, the lighter characters are better to see) but only to show that they are perfectly legible. (Identical Renderesolution)

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Have you btw read the dev blog from the 19th Aug? It has a peek into the release notes for the next WU6 [BLOG] August 19th, 2021 Development Update

I will certainly try. Firstly what headset are you using?

pimax 8kx (2x4k)

(filmgrain off! btw, you must disable filmgrain in VR and 2D setting (config file). otherwises, the grain is on in VR. small FS bug)

on flat the display is nice readable

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That isn’t a headset I know personally, but I do know it is very respected. If my G2 can be clear, so can your pimax! I don’t think your cockpit view will be affected by LODs, but dependant on your specs you can probably increase higher without too much of a performance hit.

I think your problem is very likely the render scale as the native resolution should be 3840 x 2160. If I drop the render scale in the sim below 100 then the image becomes almost out of focus slightly - however, I can drop the OXR render scale much more and not see any issue. I am not sure on the environment Pimax uses, but I would definitely recommend going to 100% render scale in the sim, even if it tanks your FPS for now - this is just a test and we can tune it back in once we have a sharp cockpit.

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98% identical to the G2 in Center Sweetspot

I can also go higher, up to 5000pix vertical and LOD 200, but the image will not be sharper.

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Try 100% so the headset is in its native resolution.

you mean lower from 110% to 100% ?
this wiill not be better

sorry, have lod write in first post, mean render scale

You said the LOD was 110% and the render scale was 3600x3100pix - that is less than the native resolution of 3840 x 2160 per eye?

yea, i mean render scale… to much LOD and scale the last days :joy:

LOD is on 200 Game 3.0 config file

I don’t bust my butt 70 hours a week to pay for someone else to have something. Sorry if that’s old fashioned thinking…but you get what you work for. If we want to use your thinking then I’ll cut back my work and you start sending me a check every week. Because why should you have anything I don’t have. Have you taken a vacation in the last 25 years? I have not. Literally. Even when I travel abroad I work in restaurants, usually for free to get the experience. I’d love to take a week or two and go just do nothing on a beach or in the mountains. Have you gone anywhere? Taken your family anywhere? I use my money for xyz. You use your money for abc. If you think you are entitled to my x then please, by all means, send me your c because why should you have it and not me? :slight_smile:

Ahh, no, the 3600x3100 render resolution is per eye :wink:

only 3600, FOV is set to small (120degree - not 160)

To some of you I have replied to…

Hey, figured I would drop this in here… Had a few hours to sleep and cooler head now. LOL FYI, I have not read anything since my last post last night so anything anyone may have replied to anything I posted I apologize I have not seen it, yet.

I do understand you are trying to help those that have issues. While I am sure I come across as an ■■■ in some cases, that is NOT my intention. Not at all. Just frustrated. When I last (about 5 months ago) use the sim it was freaking amazing. I was the one telling people to get over their bitches about things and realize this is a work in progress. Heck, even a month after it came out and had MANY issues I was so happy just to be flying it those issues didn’t bother me. I was THAT guy. LOL

However, after coming back after so long and seeing (on my system, which hasn’t changed except I added new fans to it) what looks like ■■■■ clouds and fuzziness of many textures (and freaking trees all over NYC!!!) I am very dissapointed. If I took any of that out on you then I am sorry about that. It just seemed like you were saying that any of us ‘seeing’ these things were full of ■■■■ because you were not seeing it.

I learned about 35 years ago (back when people used the real post office to send letters and actually called people on the phone) that in almost every case 1 letter or phone call of praise = about 100 people that won’t write or call. 1 letter or phone call of anger = about 60 people that won’t write or call. As more people that upset let you know about it. These were stats used by companies, networks, tv stations and political entities. I’ve never forgotten that information. I don’t believe it has changed much even today.

Thus, if you extrapolate using that information you find that way more people have issues (or at least perceive they do) than are happy with things. Simply based on how many people posting are happy or unhappy. Since waaaaay more unhappy are posting than those happy. But then, in most cases, if you are happy with how things look, why post in a topic where people are not happy about how things look. Some will (yourself) but most won’t. So while the ratio is less there are way more posting unhappiness.

Point being, for those slamming those of us that are looking at issues on our systems, you are not us and you don’t see what we see. And as has been proven several times, not everything we see can show up in a picture or video well. That doesn’t mean we are not seeing it.

Things have gotten heated from some and if any of that was perceived in my posts then I apologize. We (I) are passionate about the Simulator. It’s why we call it a simulator and not a game. I play for fun. I sim for the experience.

We are not slamming Xbox USERS. At least I am not. We (I) are slamming the 2 companies that sold us a product and then (in our experience / opinion) degraded it so that another user could enjoy it on a lesser platform. And yes, I am calling it a lesser platform because specs wise it can’t be upgraded (easily) and is NOT at nice as most PC’s that people built or bought to be their high-end game/sim machine. Again, nothing against the Xbox users. But I don’t kill myself for 70 hours a week in an insanely hot kitchen as an Executive Chef just so I can afford some nice things to have a company decide that I should lose some of what I paid for so someone else can enjoy it also. Give me what I paid for and give them what they pay for. If they want what I have then they can earn it. I know this is a very bad way of thinking now days…but sorry, not sorry. :slight_smile:

Anyway, I just want to say, I don’t mean to come across in any way to any one person other than I am upset with MS/Asobo. One day my sim looks amazing and I LOVE firing it up and streaming to the world. The next day (months later) it looks like it took a step backwards in quality to being even less than when it first came out. To the point I may or may not fire it up and when I do I find I am not as happy as before.

I hope we get back what we had and more. And I hope the Xbox users get a product they’re happy with. One should not affect the other at all.

Greg ‘Flying Master Chef’ Swagler

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I see, I didn’t realise that the FOV could be narrowed.

Looking at your results (and how they compare to my experience of render scale issues, I still think render scale is highly likely to be at least part of the problem.

I really think getting the headset into its full native resolution (including full FOV) will rule out any upscaling or downscaling issues. I realise it will have a performance hit but once we have isolated the cause, we can sort out the performance afterwards.

Does the Pimax use OpenXR or is it Steam?

I see people talking about settings…but as I am not seeing these settings in my sim I am going to assume these are in a file. I am a wizard with the setup/config files in FSX and FS2004 but have never messed with anything in the FS2020 files. Can someone point me in the right direction and maybe I can test some stuff to see if it fixes my issues? Has anyone (will anyone) posted a comprehensive list of items to change and what they do/change when altered? There were some great in detail tutorials like this for the older sims where you could have a ■■■■ to medium system and boost your performance and quality considerably by changing values in the cfg files.

Anything like that currently for 2020? Or anyone thinking of doing that? Just curious.

Thanks

Greg

no, FOV Settings makes no difference. The picture from DCS are make it with the same settings.

Steam - an this is the same problem, thats @CptLucky8 see in his index.
(G2 OXR vs. Steam)
With SU04, it was in steam sharper.:confused:

@FlyingMastrChef i would wait to the 7th september. maybe the confings are not necessary after the update

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