SU5 graphics quality

In that case, you wanna send me that 11900K (along with the motherboard of course)? It may not help my sim all that much, but it will help me snap, record, and stream better without killing the sims performance. I really didn’t consider those factors when I decided to buy a 10600K, if I had, I would have gotten the i7 version instead, but since you’re sitting on that 11900K that you don’t need anymore…

Also, @CptLucky8 has managed to make the shimmering appear by altering some settings, which means by not using those same settings, it may be possible to make it disappear, too. But he’ll have to drop by to explain the details, I don’t have shimmering, I don’t want shimmering, so I am not about to see if I can make it start by playing with any settings.

Kev

2 Likes

Ah, c’mon! :sweat_smile:

@KevyKevTPA
I really don’t know what changed but for sure, between my last Index post and my most recent G2 posts, I can’t get rid of the shimmering on building edges. May I ask you to PM me the copy of your UseCfg.opt file so that I can diff ? Thanks!

But of course. Just PM me your email addy pls…

If it ain’t broke don’t fix it!

Something does seem a bit weird with the usercfg and the way the renderscale interacts with external supersampling seems different since SU5, on my Q2 at least. Eagerly awaiting CptLucky’s analysis :smiley:

Yeah, it’s kinda IN my system now so it seems like a lot of effort to take it out again.:laughing:

Thankfully, I actually needed the horsepower for work stuff and didn’t buy it particularly for the sim. However, it’s there for when we get more settings to push things further. :grinning:

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I honestly don’t see that. What I see is that a bunch of the folks who are content with the graphics as-is are going out of their way to tell those who aren’t that they are deluded or lying.

While I haven’t read every post on this site, of those I have read, I haven’t seen too many people desperately trying to convince satisfied users that they are wrong. What I see are people who are stating the issues that they have, who just want to make sure their experience doesn’t go unnoticed by MS/Asobo. I know all I want is to have the issues fixed. I’m not saying roll back to before, wreck the experience for satisfied users, etc. Just acknowledge that there were graphical changes introduced that are essentially downgrades for some percentage of the user base, and assure us that they will be fixed. While this is indeed what has happened for some of the changes, not all have officially been acknowledged.

As I’ve stated before, it is really hard to understand why there are folks who would argue against this. If you are happy, great. But that doesn’t mean everyone who isn’t is an idiot, or that they don’t deserve to have their issues addressed.

8 Likes

As i do fully agree with you, the minority i’m referring to, are just litterally bashing it up to incomprehensible heights with “evidence” posted with pictures which obviously show image compression. When looking through the compression (which is sometimes hard), no reall issues can/could be found. And of course a lot of hearsay.

See above ;). Unfortunately, there are. But, to be honest, they fortunately are becoming less visible in recent days.

And these are the majority of the users who are expressing the issues they experience. And these should also be heard or work together where settings possibly would help where applicable.

There is no arguing against, it is showing what they are experiencing which in their case is not displaying what someone posted as an issue. It often becomes arguing when the issue is not acknowledged because of a different perception or showing the same scene without the issue showing. If an issue said by one, but can’t be confirmed by two, you say one often starting to argue.

Next time i will dissect a bit more, sorry not to be clear enough, cheers!

P.S. Not saying there are no issues, I also experiencing and seeing things. But what i’m seeing in my experience. is by me looked at as iterative development items which need some TLC.

I was thinking of just adding your file in a PM (private message in the forum!)

Just make a copy of the file, append .pln extension, drag and drop in your message, done!

Autogen building edges and some types of trees are indeed the main shimmerers

Hmm, I have not seen much of that, rather quite a few hyperbole how graphics are now “garbage”, “like FSX”, “PC version is destroyed because of XBOX” etc etc. It’s this hyperbole and generalizations like these I am arguing against, not any valid issues, like pop-ins or LOD that I think the vast majority can agree with.

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I hope they fix the Clouds, they are not as good as it used to be.

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I agree with @TidalPopcorn618 on this 100%

I think some of us have gone out of our way to help those that have a specific issue, and in most cases this has been resolved by tweaking settings. However, it is not possible to help people who claim the sim is ‘ruined’ but cannot quantify what they mean by that or demonstrate the issue(s).

You may have seen one member (I won’t name them) has spent weeks claiming his sim had been broken because the Xbox version make it IMPOSSIBLE to use more than 16GB combined RAM (he did this on several threads, and was shown this was wrong each time) and that graphics had been downgraded by 50%. Yesterday, he finally posted a video, clearly showing that his only serious issue was shimmering of textures - he was then helped to diagnose and rectify this issue.

If anyone has a specific issue (such as ‘pop in’, data issues in certain areas, or something that hasn’t been isolated yet) there are many on this forum will be glad to try and resolve the issue or at least confirm that it is a problem. But generic ‘ruined’, ‘unflyable’ or other meaningless, hyperbolic statements - with no attempt to accurately describe the problem OR to diagnose and rectify it - has become a way of life for a small minority, most of whom seem to have a bitter contempt that THEIR simulator should be involved with a [derisory tone/] games console! [/derisory tone]

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The complaining after patches and dramatic announcements of leaving the sim because it has been “destroyed” are nothing new btw, already after the very first patch we had threads like that. I just like to say I would have no idea how bad the sim is, unless I read the forums.

Are any VR users who are seeing the shimmering, using reprojection? I have finally managed to reproduce the issue, though only very slightly, by turning on reprojection (I don’t usually use it). Again, it only shows in the distance, and changing the LOD to 4 or render scale to 120 makes it go away.

I thank you for your kind words and vote of confidence, I don’t want to give false hopes though!

Ok so we’ve managed to exchanged our settings with @KevyKevTPA and there are a few differences which are in the category of things which could have a direct or indirect link to me. I can’t test right now but I’ll itemize the key differences so that others can try in the interim.

Globals:

  • His Raytracing is set to 1
    → Could this be THE setting making a difference with shimmering?

3D Settings

  • His render scale is set to 105% (in VR 100%)
    → I have shimmering with 3D 100% and VR 100%
    → Could this be another form of the 200% VR trick positively affecting shimmering?

  • His Shadows (CSM type, not the SSRTS aka Contact) are set with an unusual value to me:
    OmniContributionCullingThreshold 0.000000, I always have had 0.020000 on my system (this is the threshold filtering out shadow vs ambient lighting most likely).
    → In VR his setting is like mine (0.050000) and he is not seeing shimmering in VR though
    → Could this be also another factor still (3D setting spilling onto VR mode)?

  • His PostProcess settings are genuine
    → I manually disable Fringe, LensFlare, Dirt, FilmGrain, Vignette (I believe the last 3 of them are from the Plague Of Tale code and are not used in FS2020 whatsoever though).
    → In VR his settings is like mine and he is not seeing shimmering in VR though
    → Could this be also another factor still (3D setting spilling onto VR mode)?

  • His TLOD and OLD are set to 300%
    → I use 100% with the G2 and I’ve noticed shimmering, but with the Index I used to use TLOD 200% and didn’t spot any shimmering that I can remember of.
    → Could this be THE other setting making a difference with shimmering?

  • The other settings are mostly about using ULTRA in 3D where I otherwise use lower values.

VR Settings

  • No difference that I would attribute to the shimmering except TLOD and OLD mentioned above, which he is also setting at 300% in VR.

Other differences

  • He is using Texture Super sampling in 3D and VR which I don’t use at all
    → but when testing this yesterday on my end it didn’t change anything about shimmering.

What’s left to try

  • Try manually setting Raytracing 1
  • Try with at least Terrain LOD 200%, then Object LOD 200%

PS: I can’t test any of this right now, but if someone tries it I’m eager to see the results!

4 Likes

It’s actually funny to read that.

I started a business selling 3d-printed flight sim controllers, and we’re currently in what I call “pre-order” mode. That can mean a lot of things to a lot of people, but one thing it means for sure is “it’s gonna be awhile until you get your product”.

So I had a customer order a yoke, and as a brand new company, obviously we love every single order we get, so we were happy. But then, less than a week after placing his order, he emailed me about when it was going to arrive, and when I gave him a realistic guess, he cancelled his order because his expectation was no more than two weeks. I never said anything to him, but in my mind I’m thinking, “Are you serious? 2 weeks for a PRE-ORDER ITEM??? It just doesn’t work that way!”

The post you reminded us all of kinda reminds me of that customer. Should anyone be curious about what we sell, drop me a PM and I’ll send you our website address.

EDIT: And to add to that thought, I’m pretty sure every single update that has come out has had a “the sky is falling, and MSFS sucks now” reaction in this forum. But then the next patch comes out, and some of those very same people are then saying “This new patch sucks, and MSFS sucks now, I want to go back to the prior version!”

If it wasn’t so sad, it would be funny. But it’s like @TwoSuitz was saying, if you have a specific issue, out with it and see if someone might actually be able to help. But the chicken little “the sky is falling” routine is no good for nobody. Frankly, a lot of is is straight up bravo sierra, like the myth that won’t die about the PC version being handcuffed by the Xbox versions memory restrictions. It makes the forum look bad, it makes the product look bad, and I’m surprised the powers that be allow so much of it. It’s one thing if you’ve got a legit complaint, there are many who do. But just to pile on, over and over and over again with the outright falsehoods and just frankly abusing MS and Asobo for stuff that, in a large majority of cases is not their fault just doesn’t belong.

Oh, well, their house, their rules.

2 Likes

You should NOT feel bad. Not at all. And I never saw any PC simmer say that Xbox users should feel bad. Not one post (that I have read) has stated anything at all against Xbox users.

We are complaining about MS/Asobo. They sold US a product with amazing graphics, incredible real-world weather (when it worked) etc… But then they downgraded our experience (apparently for most, but NOT for all) and even made it totally unusable for some after we have spent a year supporting it and pumping money into their pockets.

Like another post’s analogy…imagine you bought a car. The dealer shop upgrades your car every time you take it in for your free oil change. Then one day, you take it in and they rip out the engine and replace it with one of lesser quality because the new car they are selling isn’t as nice as yours. You would never allow this and it’s quite illegal (at least it is in the USA.)

You will complain and throw a fit. You may even say something about the people that buy the lesser new car. But you’re not mad at those people. You’re mad at the company.

I honestly don’t think anyone (disgruntled PC simmers) are angry with Xbox Users.

Greg

5 Likes

For making the car more accessible and more performant to more people, so more people will be buying? And the reaction is to come here on the forums to complain how the car was destroyed for everyone, even though they only downtuned some aspects of the engine that only you were able to use before?

Thanks Captain, I had a quick try with Ray Tracing 1 and had no impact for me. I am wondering how people can have different settings for this though, makes me wonder if some of us maybe had a read-only file at the time the sim changed one of these hidden settings? Would it be possible for either you or Kevy to please PM me the full cfg file and I would try with that?

Other minor comments

I have tried different render scalings in 2d and VR without fixing the aliasing. My standard is 100 in VR on Quest 2

FYI mine was also 0 in 2d and 0.05 in VR, maybe the 0 comes from the ultra preset?

Here I have everything disabled, which is partly why I am interested to try someone else’s full healthy config file :slight_smile: FYI there is a youtube video here advocating that FilmGrain makes an important impact on image and should be off, in 2d at least. [ Graphics Fix for Sim Update 5 - How to Get Your High Quality Visuals Back | MSFS - YouTube ]

I have gone between 100 (my SU4 settings) to 200 (to try to combat pop in) and havent seen any impact on the aliasing

1 Like