SU5 graphics quality

Well, for me, going from high to ultra with clouds is like trying to start driving in 5th gear :laughing:, again, iā€™m rtx2060.

Itā€™s more a definitely i think ;).

My monitor though, is a business oriented monitor. ā€œIt probably does not need a wide gamutā€. After checking it does not resemble true 32 bit.

So, after you updated the picture, i notice color output errors, purple and green color artifacts, this because of compression (mentioned also for other to understand) which almost resembles also HDR > SDR conversion because colors are replaced

P.S. if you want me to remove it from my post i will.

for my understanding, if itā€™s too high, doesnā€™t this mean itā€™s more then the monitor could handle?

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I have no hopes, they dont even talk about the downgrade, well what can they sayā€¦. We make the product worse, sry but money counts

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Well, most HDR enabled displays have more or less 4.000 nit of brightnessā€¦ I saw measurements saying the HDR in FS produces >10.000 at Peakā€¦ the Sun for instance. Thatā€™s why it looks so messed up in HDR

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Oh wow, did not know that (the output level of the sun i mean :joy: ), thanks for explaining!

I think i will check this on my TV. Do you have any example that resembles what you are seeing or any settings i could use?

Just check looking at the sun in HDR and not HDR. Youā€™ll see a big difference. In non HDR the sun looks crisp with all of the lenses flare effectsā€¦ in HDR it a white-yellowish spot with no crispness at all

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Cheers, i will check and put a pair of sunglasses on :laughing:. The coloring could be correct though depending on the implemention of the monitor. To reduce confusion about implementation, for one who want to know, whatch this clip, as it will give some exlanation: Sorry not sorry... - YouTube

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Nice pics! Yes, the clouds have clearly taken a hit in SU5, on the other hand scenes like below are still possible. Generally I have noticed that live weather clouds tend to be more imposing than the preset ones. There was a reason why I asked @FlyingMastrChef to take off from Megeve last night with live weather, it was really beautiful.

(Preset mid-level)

(Live)

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This exactly!

I only fly in VR. Iā€™m not interested in flying on a flat monitor. Iā€™ve seen what this sim can do in VR and it is truly amazing. SU5 initially added a few FPS, and things are admittedly more performant around large airports and other busy areas, but for me this came at too big a hit to the visual experience. I guess I was already spoiled by what Iā€™ve seen, and was also hoping that with the promised optimizations I might be able to improve the visuals even more, but to my major disappointment SU5 brought me just the opposite.

I do not have a completely maxed out, top end machine. But prior to SU5 I had spent many hours tweaking settings in and out of the sim, following the excellent advice of @CptLucky8 and others, along with my own experimentation. I was able to get to a state where I could have most settings at Ultra, the rest at high. After much experimentation I got to a point where I was happy with my balance of performance and image, and all was good. I had a couple of good months of enjoying flying, where I did not have to waste time playing with settings.

SU5 completely spoiled all the work Iā€™d put into finding my ā€œsweet spotā€. I appreciate that this thread has recently taken somewhat of a turn away from folks bashing on people complaining about the visuals, to folks trying to help. Thatā€™s great. But for me, I have already put several hours into tweaking post SU5, and while Iā€™ve been able to improve some things, I cannot get back to the level of detail and clarity that I had before, maintaining the performance that I had. Everything that was previously set to Ultra still is, plus some, and my render scale is higher than I ever had it set, but the image is still blurry and less realistic.

To be honest, Iā€™ve temporarily given up. I donā€™t feel like wasting any more time tweaking things right now, especially knowing that with upcoming updates Iā€™d likely have to start all over again anyway. I just have to hope that this is a temporary state and Asobo will find ways to bring the quality back without reversing whatever gains they made in porting to XBox. That is all I hope for. I really enjoyed this pre SU5 and I want to go back to that.

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Ah okay thanks for clarification, didnā€™t know that! I am not that familiar with all the technical aspects of true color depiction in monitors. I also only have an ASUS Gaming monitor with IPS panel in WQHD resolution and 165Hz with default factory calibration i guess. For me its the IPS panel that makes the biggest difference in color quality. Though i have to deal with the glow and bleeding a bit, but its negligible .

No worries, Iā€™m totally fine with it :smiley:

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Tbh if i had to guess, i would have called them Pre SU5ā€¦ they really look awesome without the negativity bias! Especially the second oneā€¦ i like the richness of the different variations of cloud formationsā€¦ little spikes every where in a random pattern and not like on a chessboardā€¦ thats what makes the immerison so perfect. But tbh since the SU5 update i never ever saw clouds like in your picture anymoreā€¦ Maybe i should really try it with live weather and search for regions with many clouds.
My absolute favorite preSU5 was ā€œStormā€ during sunsetā€¦ i got goosebumps when heading with my cessna into a gigantic thunderstorm cell and the lightning and thunder surrounded my plane. With every lightning bolt and clap of thunder my subwoofer made me shiver :smiley:

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True words spoken!
Thanks for your good explanation of the wild ride of feelings that we had to go through the last weeks! Especially since you have not even played in ā€œall Ultraā€ mode and still are able to notice the difference compared to before the updateā€¦
Most people that are not playing on Ultra were not able to understand the dilemma, because for them performance increase on mid range rigs valued more than graphical fidelity or they couldnā€™t find a difference since medium/high settings were barely touched by that updateā€¦ i cant tell, because iā€™m on Ultra since the beginning, but that was my experience from other threads.

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True, but when watching this video, the descent starting around 55min, the clouds really were spectacular

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Reallyā€¦ thatā€™s the problem right there, nothing but assumptions.

ā– ā– ā– ā– , that is so pretty!!!

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Well, currently iā€™m looking at the sim in 4k on an hdr screen up to 1000 nits at 52inch.

From my personal perspective. Iā€™m kind of impressed. I callibrated the output and set a color profile for my display so color prediction is as accurate as possible for my display. I did made sure i had the st.2084 profile active.

When looking at the colors there are no purple/green artifacts, there is also no whitewashing except the blueish discoloring (brighten up) by haze, which is expected. The details are crisp.

Clouds are having higher contrast, iā€™m also not seeing the grain. This possibly because of my additional nvidia settings.

I canā€™t keep it running too long on this screen, as itā€™s family purposed :grimacing:.

Now i need to go back to my non hdr screenā€¦ ā– ā– ā– ā– .

I have played this on ultra before but not in hdr. HDR is not ultra, itā€™s just a color/intensity/etc range. So yes, this was the first time on hdr. When i did disable hdr, iā€™m seeing almost exact the same as on my original non hdr monitor in respect to colors.

I have taken a bunch if screenshots, but will probably not reflect the hdr output on the site becayse of possible compression. So will update this post and try to explain what iā€™m seeing.

Edit:
P.S. I canā€™t say anything usefull about VR.

Well, as expected, looking at the pictures on SD is utterly crap.

With the below picture i tried to create the same environment(ish).

On default ultra.
My additional nvidia settings:
Gamma correction: on,
Antialiasing transparency: 8x
trilinair optimization: off,
anisotropic filtering: App controlled (i think this one is debatable)

I canā€™t tell how it would look on your screen. but i tried :slight_smile:

I totally get it, thatā€™s also why i try to find out whatā€™s happening, from my perspective, in what iā€™m seeing is that there is, or hdr to sdr convertion, or itā€™s for example true 32 bit rendering on a not true 32 bit screen. Maybe sRGB/aRGB is active, maybe some weird yuv profile (which should reduce bandwith), maybe incorrect 4:2:0 / 4:2:2 / 4:4:4 whatever. In regards to coloring iā€™m as open minded as aā€¦ well, fill in :wink:

When switching between HDR and non HDR, there definitely is some banding, but not as much as on my monitor, which tells me that my monitor has less color gamut/depth support then my tv does. for example in sky. the banding is not as small as on my monitor, meaning there are more shades of blue available.

Quote: ā€œWashed out graphics POST SU5ā€
I can mainly agree in what iā€™ve seen. But i also need to notice that using ST.2084 provides quite a broad nits representation and is able to quite accurate display 10000 nits on a 1000 nits screen depending on the curvature implemented.

Also what needs to be taken into account is the HDMI bandwith, so maybe a lot are stuck on 4:2:0 when on 12 bit, because of how 12 bit sounds, but you will loose chroma. So there is a lot more needed to be able to find out why on some itā€™s washing, and why on some itā€™s not/more correct.

I did notice, i had a massive whitewash in windows with lower brightness, this was idiotically high, i really needed to crank it up. It was unbearable. The lower the slider, the more SD you are getting. It looks to be linear, what could explain it:
image

So, iā€™m not really sure if itā€™s specifically being ā€œxbox+tvā€ or ā€œpc monitorā€ minded, as with the xbox you are able to adjust the output. If you would get the most out of it you would want to have >40Gbit, which for example the XBox does not support if iā€™m correct.

A need to check is how it looks at for example 4:2:2/4:4:4 on 10 bit like @BubbaBlitz7348 below is mentioning.

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After yesterday we were finally able to restore my sharpness in VR and at some point I had a good performance again, the FS is proving to be a diva again today.
Iā€™ve been trying to take off a flight for 7.5 hours. No chance. Mods on, mods off, mods sort.

After comparing the times for certain actions, I believe that I have found the meaning of this software. It is an update, config and nerve test simulator. :joy: :joy:

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Which is also why some are finding that SU5 is degrading the PC experience because of the Xbox, not just from a pixel detail or object popping up perspective.

Donā€™t draw conclusions too fast about what Iā€™ve just written (I know you wonā€™t @scriptkid ), just take some time to re-read this with an open mind (and 2nd degree) while at the same time asking yourself whether most Xbox connected on TVs are most likely on HDR 4K TVs (what sells the most for the living room) and most PC connected on monitors are most likely on SDR monitors.

With this in mind, it makes it easier to see what I mean:

And this:

Now honestly there is no reason the game code couldnā€™t support both transfer functions and chromaticity depending on which type of monitor or TV youā€™re connecting the computer to, but is it? Is the ā€œPC codeā€ implemented for ā€œPC specificā€ context? And if this example with chromaticity is sound and showing it is tuned only for a specific type of equipment (HDR TV) which is most likely more often used with a consoler than a PC, what are the other part of the game code which are also only designed and tuned for a console only, if any?

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Did anyone try out of thereā€™s any difference (especially for HDR) playing in RGB snd YCbCr 442 or 444 mode?

For HDR Im using 422 and 10 bit and it smoothed it a bit more. But now Im having the PG problem with the servers but dont worry weā€™re gonna fix it next week with the update. REALLY?

Will try 422 thenā€¦ currently running HDR with RGB at 10 Bit. I notice that some lights are too brightā€¦ maybe it helps