This is still one of the deal breakers for me to jump definitively to 2024. I wonder three things: 1 why is it given such a low priority since it clearly makes some aircraft unusable, 2 what’s there to investigate?, all you have to do is fire up the game and look at it, 3 if its indeed something that is so hard to fix, then give us an option to turn reflections OFF and lets be done with it and move along.
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This is an issue that affects all addon planes. And you can’t really fix it in the materials. If you increase the roughness, it makes the glass blurry. Or you can make the glass one-sided but then it’s perfectly clear looking out.
I think this is a case where making the rendering more realistic conflicts with how we see things in the sim. In real life, glass does reflect a lot but our eyes can see past it just like we can see through a screened window without noticing the screen mesh. Unless it’s a strong glare, our eyes can focus on the distance instead of the surface details.
It’s important to remember there are actually two problems here.
One is the way the glass is too opaque (or reflective), which is the one you seem to consider. This is open to discussion as to how strong this effect should be.
The other is the fact that looking ahead the glass is actually reflecting the ground, which is physically impossible as the body of the plane is obviously in the way. The reflection should be the top of the dashboard, or the interior of the plane. This is a very basic error which needs no discussion and should be fixed. There is obviously a simulator design flaw common to the many aircraft affected, perhaps because the same team worked on them. @Flak99 has discussed the probable cause in another thread:
What is very annoying is that neither of these problems were present in FS2020. How can the team claim FS2024 is a step forward when, rather than learn from experience, various problems like this have been introduced and still not solved in the new sim?
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Not just add-on planes, many built-in planes are also affected.
Regardless of the underlying cause, the issue simply didn’t exist in MSFS 2020 for the very same built-in planes, so it must be attributed to the differences between MSFS 2020 and MSFS 2024.
Time for this problem to be BUG-LOGGED!
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This bug report is a bit muddled as it includes various problems under a single bug report.
It looks like the “Opacity” bug may have been solved. An aircraft I used to have the problem with is certainly far better, although I haven’t checked other aircraft yet.
The reflections bug (where they got the physics wrong, showing a reflection of the ground under the aircraft rather than the interior of the aircraft) is still unsolved. In fact, to my eye it has actually been made worse by the reduction in opacity.
(TBM 930 clear skies, SU3 build .8)
I trust the developers understand that these are two separate bugs (although causing a similar effect on the windscreen) and that this topic and the investigation referred to in the bugs list should be kept open till fully resolved.
The developer should allow the glass effect to be turned off in the settings. The solution would be very simple, provide an off function.
The strong shadows, reflections are catastrophic, ridiculous. What is perhaps most important, it damages the eyes of the users.
The community would be very grateful to the development team if they provided the option to turn it off. Thanks in advance!
2 Likes
Do you have the same issue if you follow the OP’s steps to reproduce it?
•
Provide extra information to complete the original description of the issue:
•
If relevant, provide additional screenshots/video:
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I cannot understand why this is only “Feedback logged”, when it is very obviously a bug.
- It is very easy to reproduce - for example, fly the Daher TBM930 off runway 23 at NZQN on a sunny day, do a circuit and land again. There’s a lovely firework show on both takeoff and landing.
- It affects a large number of aircraft - I got my list up to 30 when I finally gave up.
- It is even worse in VR, as each eye shows a different moving pattern.
- In some planes, the incorrect reflections show up not only on the windscreen but on the glass instruments.
- They are not just “over-exaggerated” effects, these are scientifically incorrect reflections, as they treat the plane as being transparent.
- This effect was not present is any planes in FS2020, so there has obviously been a systematic error (perhaps by a single team) when re-doing the aircraft for FS2024.
- It has not been fixed - something of a fix has been applied to the “Opacity” of the glass, but if anything it has made these erroneous reflections more noticeable.
- A very plausible cause has been put forward by @Flak99, which should make a solution much quicker (Option to turn off windscreen reflections - #72 by Flak99)
- I really do not see the point of introducing more aircraft in the sim when so many existing aircraft are critically affected by this bug.
Could someone in the community team or in Asobo themselves (as we are assured they avidly read the forum) please let us know when it will be bug-logged, and when we can expect a solution.
Thanks.
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I’ve been testing my theory by modding the Miltech CH47D to:
- Remove the inside of the canopy glass from the EXTERIOR model
- Add the inside of the canopy glass to the INTERIOR model
I’m still playing around with this but it seems to be working - I just need to fine-tune the windshield material parameters.
Here is the “before” screenshot - look at all those reflections from the ground. In fact a still screenshot disguises how bad this looks while flying!
Here is afterwards, with my mod. No more ground reflections, however the cockpit IS reflected, although you can’t really see it in this screenshot.
So it looks like I was correct about the location* of the glass inner surface model being important. I have no idea whether this is a bug for Asobo to fix, or they consider it as intended behaviour, in which case it’s up to the aircraft devs (including Asobo themselves!) to update aircraft to ensure the inside surface of cockpit glass is in the interior model.
`* By location I mean within which gltf model file - interior or exterior
5 Likes
The excessive reflections and glare appear in both default aircraft and third-party aircraft.
The effects are displayed differently in each eye in VR and are very disturbing to flights.
The effects are amplified by low angle sun (dawn, dusk), and night ambient environment and cockpit lights.
any-aircraft vr graphics cockpit 3rd-party-aircraft steam
1 Like
Here’s my fix for the Miltech CH47D. And a quick video showing before (top) and after (bottom).
In theory this approach should work with other aircraft, however I noticed a few exceptions so far:
- TBM 930 - the glass model is not split into inner and outer, so this would be very tricky to fix. One for the devs I think.
- FlyingIron FW190 - might be tricky to fix due to some canopy flex animations when it slides open/closed.
I’m sure there are plenty more exceptions too!
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Looks pretty convincing to me, good work.
It’s insane that it takes a member of the community to figure this out. Even so I can’t imagine official fixes soon give the glacial (see what I did there?) pace of Asobo’s updates.
Yeah I did this mostly just to learn how stuff worked, as I was curious about this issue. I shared my findings with Mitech so maybe they’ll fix the CH47D along these lines; one aircraft down, probably hundreds to go! Not saying I’m going to fix them, but I hoped sharing my example might lead to some fixes coming from other aircraft devs or modders.
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Here’s an example of flickering reflections in the side window of the C172. I’m not sure what this is supposed to be reflecting.
Another fix done - this time for the FlyingIron FW 190 A-8 which was quite unpleasant to fly at low altitudes due to the reflections in MSFS 2024.
I wasn’t able to make a complete fix. It’s not possible (for me) to fix the glass on the sliding canopy, due to a complex animation which causes it to flex as it slides back. Hopefully FI will publish an update to the aircraft in due course, in which case my mod will become unnecessary!
3 Likes
Do you have the same issue if you follow the OP’s steps to reproduce it?
• Yes, everyone does.
Provide extra information to complete the original description of the issue:
• Why is this not fixed? Do the people who have the power to fix it just not SEE it or what? Do they not understand how reflections work in the real world? The windshields STRONGLY REFLECT WHAT THEY COULD NOT POSSIBLY BE FEFLECTING. In other words: there are strong, VERY distracting reflections. The reflections are on the windshield. The reflections are of the ground below the aircraft. They should NOT be reflecting what’s below the aircraft because the aircraft is in the way. Please make the windshields NOT reflect what is under the aircraft. At the very LEAST, let us TURN OFF the lousy reflections.
If relevant, provide additional screenshots/video:
• Why? Obviously, nobody who is capable of fixing this ongoing issue (as with SOOOOO many other issues that just never get fixed) can be bothered to actually FIX IT.
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Maybe we need to put this is simpler terms: “OK, pretend you’re the inside surface of the windshield. Can you see the ground directly below the airplane? NO? Because the airplane is in the way? OK then, why are you putting it on the surface of the windshield and calling it a reflection?”
3 Likes
The humidity levels do the same thing: the glare on the displays is present even when the sun is directly behind my aircraft and should be blocked. These things are no-brainers, and definitely more important then a half-finished Career Mode that they’ve practically abandoned at this point anyway.
And here are the photos, just in case anyone sees this and says “well you didn’t include photos, what did you want us to fix”:
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That “reflection” is WITHOUT QUESTION ridiculous.
“By design?” Seriously?
3 Likes