We need Force Feedback back!

Googling right now!

Is XPForce what you used? At only £9.95 it seems worth a go.

EDIT:
The download page says £9.95 but when you go to the store for the licence the price is actually £14.95. Still not bad and apparently it can be tried for free.

I did not realise that there has been a thread dedicated to this since Aug 2020.

I am just trawling through the 180+ messages before diving in.

Good point…am I dreaming or did Honeycomb mention that FF might be on their future radar???

Out of curiosity, did you actually look at the patent information?

It strikes me this Immersion Corp patent troll is a myth. It’s like at some point in the past someone on the internet asked why force feedback joysticks don’t exist and someone with half the facts replied blaming them and it has just spiraled out of control ever since with people perpetuating the same old wives tale.

Why do I say this?

Immersion Corp took Sony and Microsoft to court many years ago over “haptic feedback” in their console joypads. As a result of this, Microsoft settled out of court and bought a 10% share in the company allowing them to keep their joypads with vibration functionality. Meanwhile, Sony carried on fighting and launched the PS3 console with joypads that no longer used dual motor vibration.

This can all be verified across numerous media sources from 20 years ago.

The real kicker though when people try to blame Immersion Corp for the demise of the MSFFB2, aside from the fact that Microsoft had a 10% stake in the company, Microsoft held the patent for force feedback joysticks…

https://patents.google.com/patent/US5742278A/en

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Oh, man, I would soooo love to see Force Feedback Joysticks become a thing again. I still have my old Microsoft FFPro from back in the nineties, but, it’s got the old game connector. I’d have to figure out how to convert it to USB. I have the old Microsoft FF Wheels and pedals, too, that was so awesome with the first Need for Speed games and NASCAR.

The best part would be feeling the resistance with regards to trim. So you could actually trim by feel like a real plane. Thrustmaster just announced a whole line of new joysticks and yokes so maybe they’ve got something up their sleeve. We can hope.

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Yeah i tried xpforce. Didnt like it at all. The vubration while taking off is ok, but thats aboyt it. None of anything else it did made sense compared to ehat the plane was doing

Id like to see a FF yoke and pedals in addition to a FF joystick. I have a FF g29 racing wheel and I cant play driving games / sims without it ever again. It changed the game for me. FS needs this also. You need to be able to feel wind gusts and other forces when flying, it’s part of the feeling that’s so important to handling an aircraft IRL.

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Honestly this is one of those things that needs a large hardware developer (Logitech? Thrustmaster?) to partner directly with Microsoft to develop both hardware and software support together. Otherwise, no manufacturer is going to make the hardware speculatively, if there is zero support for it in mainstream software.

That said, this is one of those things that really does need to happen. So much of flying IRL is done by feel (A320 pilots can find the door over there :slight_smile: ) so being able to feel this directly through the controls would be awesome. Likewise, modelling the change in control weight with speed / conditions would make for a far more immersive experience.

It feels unlikely that we will see this any time soon, but I’ll be first in the queue to buy it if it ever appears in the future!

Microsoft really introduced FFB hardware with the Sidewinder FFB. I had two, before transitioning to the Logitech G940 and this still soldiers on happily. When it comes to manufacturers, I would have thought that the logical one would again be Microsoft, or an MS sponsored one.

When my G940s die (two of them again) I will be knocking on Mr. Brunners back door.

Well, you want force feedback back? Don’t force it: simply give feedback to the developers.

And use the force, Luke!

:wink:

I don’t disagree that FF should be a thing in MSFS. However, consumer grade choices in that space are rather limited atm. When MS is laser focused on appealing to the low end of the market (Xbox), I don’t see them adding features that are only available in a few niche, boutique-grade products for PC only.

Right now, options include Brunner and Flight Illusion. Perhaps a couple of others. If people are complaining that the sim costs a lot, the sticker shock of those yokes will give them an aneurism, as the cheapest (Brunner) starts at over $1000 US. Hardcore sim enthusiasts see this as being the price for admission for extra realism. The more casual simmers (which make up most of the market) see that as prohibitively expensive.

I wouldn’t count on Thrustmaster to come through either. At BEST we can expect haptic feedback / rumble similar to what’s in the Xbox controller. Although I wouldn’t even count on that. Acceptable force feedback is really only a PC thing where they can build quality products and charge accordingly. They’re going to be targeting the low end of the market making things Xbox compatible. They key is mass-production and affordability over features and durability. Anyone who’s owned a T.Flight HOTAS of some flavour will know how it compares to TM’s higher end PC-only products. It works well, but it’s cheaply built and wears down very quickly. It’s made cheaply for the console mass market.

So really, there’s zero incentive for Microsobo to include full FF support in the sim. Maybe in a couple of years when most of the Xbox player base have moved on to other games and PC once again becomes Microsobo’s focus, we may see it. Until then, I wouldn’t count on it.

My old Logitech FF joystick died on me years ago, that thing was a beast! I bought it specifically for FS98 which was the first flightsim to take advantage of it.

Yet, a few years later…the FF fad faded away. Maybe it was the bulky hardware that turned off many users?

The fact that we cant have a peripheral for an at home flight sim because some doodoo head bought it up and and wants money for it.

loop holes people, to beat them at their game we have to play by their personal set of rules.

an electronic simulated forces yoke. or even an open source 3d printed housing to modify existing yokes. I mean a clamp, simple servos. to work the force feed back.

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This just really makes me wish I had an engineering degree. I would design it myself from the bottom up!

There will be Naysayers. There’s always someone out there just waiting to tell you that it can’t be done. Aint nobody got time for that.

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Just to chime in, I too own a MSFF2 in pristine condition. The very first thing I missed in MSFS2020 was the lack of FF support. (After that, there were many other things, most of which appear to have been relegated to payware.)

Since MS owns the FF patent, I find it difficult to believe that current manufacturers aren’t producing FF devices unless, of course, they are purposely not producing them in favor of some other, higher-priced functionality.

Lastly, with the conversion charge, 14.xx ‘pounds’ for that add-on, nearly a third the price of the sim, is too much.

It’s always about the money.

Does it?


There are so many Force Feedback posts already. Please consider participating in the following:

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