Is reporting bugs for msfs 2024 worthy?

[MinusMicrobe472]

@Fodre69

If the only time it will work well is when no one is using it, then it doesn’t work.

Let’s not use it so it works for all

[CraigRiga]

I don’t think that can be used as an excuse, msfs2020 also suffers from simple mouse related issues. It’s a failure of direct lead development to repair what is very obviously broken.

[GimbalAxis]

Here is an example of a new user trying to report a bug, and the result. I think it is worth discussing constructively:

ATC uses wrong TA

Using the template below will greatly help the team reproduce the issue and ease the process of fixing it. Before posting, search for an existing report. If you are not sure it’s a bug, please first report in User Support Hub. 2 tags are required - add them in the tag section next to the title above: One for iteration (msfs-2020 or msfs-2024) One for platform (ms-store, steam, xbox, or xcloud) Feel free to delete this quote section after adding your appropriate tags. ISSUE DESCRIPTION Desc…

[Jimrh1993]

@GimbalAxis

It’s very unfortunate how normalized the dysfunction has become to anyone who has stuck around for any amount of time. I think we stick around because when it does work, it is very rewarding. It’s the potential. We are reminded how dysfunctional it is when a new user / customer shows up with very reasonable expectations and meets the instability and unfinished state of things.

This isn’t just about MSFS.  This is the state of affairs in the software world in general.

• The zillion-dollar French Arianne rocket that blew itself up due to a 16-bit overflow.
• Naval vessels that get stopped in their tracks while in a hostile environment because of a computer crash.
• People have died in aircraft crashes caused by computers.
• Zillions of dollars in lost time by businesses who desk with software balls-ups.
• And so on.

There are two items that are interesting reading.

1. They write the right stuff - a paper describing the need for software engineering to actually become an engineering discipline.
2. The Inmates Are Running The Asylum - a book that describes, in detail, the importance of technology and our inability to effectively develop it.

MSFS happens to be an egregious example of this, but it is not the only one, not by a long shot.

[MinusMicrobe472]

Did the poster use any of his own words?

[streamfire]

@Jimrh1993

This is the state of affairs in the software world in general.

It would be different if consumers had reasonable remedies available to hold software companies accountable.

[MinusMicrobe472]

@CraigRiga

I don’t think that can be used as an excuse, msfs2020 also suffers from simple mouse related issues.

Out of curiosity, could you point me to the thread about it?
Thank you.

[MinusMicrobe472]

@Paytheon
I received email about your reply, see below.
“You are correct. I’m a software developer with 30 years experience who have worked with Intel, Microsoft, and others. Data is everything in software. Data coming together “CORRECTLY” and on time is a must. AI properly developed ensures everything is correct. There are so many bugs with MSFS 2024 that I can assure you it will take years to fix what Asobo has release. Why? It’s all cloud based. Relying on the Cloud Architecture alone to perform on time is calculation that should have never been taken at this level. Can they fix it? Yes. Everything can be fixed. Question is when and how? At this point in time MSFS 2020 is the best simulator platform out there next to XPlane 12. MSFS 2024 is a complete failure.”
I do not see your answer in the thread.
Did you delete it or it is hidden somewhere and I can not find it?
Or was is moderators?
Just curious how things work here in forums.

[NixonRedgrave]

@MinusMicrobe472

Out of curiosity, could you point me to the thread about it?

This was an ongoing, many user reports with Xbox and mice. It was closed as “won’t fix” since they were never able to replicate it in-house. It used to happen to me all the time.

Losing mouse control on Xbox Series S/X

On the xbox series X when using keyboard and mouse along side Xbox Series X Controller then when flying you lose mouse control option after a couple minutes in the air. Only way to get your mouse movement back is restart the sim. Already filed a support ticket for it but wanted to post it here too

This is a current, 2024 mouse-related issue:

Mouse freelook axis crosstalk - overly sensitive

Using the template below will greatly help the team reproduce the issue and ease the process of fixing it. Before posting, search for an existing report. If you are not sure it’s a bug, please first report in User Support Hub. 2 tags are required - add them in the tag section next to the title above: One for iteration (msfs-2020 or msfs-2024) One for platform (ms-store, steam, xbox, or xcloud) Feel free to delete this quote section after adding your appropriate tags. SIM I…

Here’s another mouse bug:

All controlls disabled while mouse hovers over undocked gauges/panels

See https://youtu.be/i1fBdhTaTyI how you can reproduce it with MSFS in safe mode. Microsoft Flight Simulator Build version MSFS 2024 and 2020 1.36.2.0 Steps to reproduce Start MSFS in safe mode to avoid conflicts with community content Assign elevator and ailerons to a joystick within MSFS Load any stock aircraft with glass cockpit element (TBM 930 for instance) and ensure the assigned controlls work well Undock a glasscockpit gauge or the VFR Map Start moving around your joystick continous…

There are more…

[ScottMDA]

Nope !

Scott

[FloSchulz90]

Like for example this annoying issue which carried over to 2024:

Freelook Mouse Control is STILL Gone

Not much to add, except I don’t see why so many of these issues have been marked “closed”. I have tried for ~1.5h now using all forum posts available and cannot get the freelook mouse control back to regular functionality.

Why can I control my plane while panning around in exterior view using right click but am unable to fly my plane while I use that same mouse button to view another bit of my panel?

[TheBlackWind977]

@MinusMicrobe472

Judging from your response, it is NOT.

It is not. I’ve not tried to report many bugs, and I could be wrong… But I can’t remember a single one being fixed. The last time I tried to report a bug, it got moved to MSFS2020 even tho I specified 2024 meaning it for sure will never get looked at.

[TheBlackWind977]

@filipo1337

So, I have to ask: why should any of us keep paying for this “experience”? I’m tired of feeling like a glorified beta tester on my own dime. Are we really expected to keep throwing money at a product that seems fundamentally broken, all while hoping someone eventually decides to patch it?

Because at least for some of us (I’m including myself here), the game is a lot of fun and better than 2020 despite the plethora of bugs.

Why? Well, most of the bugs people report don’t affect me even if I can acknowledge they exist. The game doesn’t crash for me. The streaming works perfectly for me etc etc. Most of the planes that so bug ridden that they barely fly (or don’t) I don’t care about. The career works fine for me too - once I learn not to fly over midnight local. That’s obviously a bug. It was frustrating to me twice, but that was many weeks ago and now I fly about without issue for the most part.

I’m not meaning to make excuses for MS. The release was deplorable, but if one has the attitude, “How can I have fun with this?” it’s very easy to discover ways to do so.

[MinusMicrobe472]

@NixonRedgrave

This was an ongoing, many user reports with Xbox and mice. It was closed as “won’t fix” since they were never able to replicate it in-house. It used to happen to me all the time.

Thank you.

[MinusMicrobe472]

@TheBlackWind977

But I can’t remember a single one being fixed. The last time I tried to report a bug, it got moved to MSFS2020 even tho I specified 2024 meaning it for sure will never get looked at.

Well, that is kind of ridiculous …

[MinusMicrobe472]

@TheBlackWind977

I’m not meaning to make excuses for MS. The release was deplorable, but if one has the attitude, “How can I have fun with this?” it’s very easy to discover ways to do so.

Lucky you.

[FloSchulz90]

I have opened 2 bug reports for 2020 which both referred to problems in localization files, first one for MSFS base which also included ATC-Strings and the second for a totally messed up DC-3 which was released in celebration (!) of the 40th anniversary of the franchise.

	Opened	SU number	closed	SU number
base pack	Oct 3 2021[1]	SU 3/4	Apr 4 2023	SU 11
DC-3	Nov 14 2022	SU 10	Sep 28 2023	SU 13

So in the case of an aircraft developed by a subcontractor (Aeroplane Heaven), it took 10.5 months to fix a couple of strings and in order to swap 4 letters (!), Asobo needed 30 months.

---

1. bug opened on that date, was persistent at least half a year before that, therefore referencing SU 3/4 ↩︎

[TheBlackWind977]

Hah. We’re still waiting for fixes to the Boeing 307 too. I’ve not flown it in ages, but unless I miss something it still has two sixes on the altimeter which someone had to have done on purpose along with a messed up fuel system.

First AH told me on Facebook they’d fix it “soon.” Then when I asked again nearly a year later they said they couldn’t fix it because it was up to MS.

Although at this point, I’m a little worried if they do try to fix it it’ll just cause more work for @NixonRedgrave

[NixonRedgrave]

@TheBlackWind977

Although at this point, I’m a little worried if they do try to fix it it’ll just cause more work for @NixonRedgrave

You and me both! No joke, I’ve seriously thought about this.

[tjsidd]

FWIW… I used to work at Xbox (I was a software engineer on the Xbox One). Asobo’s process will be different here but I can at least speak to software/gaming at this scale.

For Xbox crash bugs, we would completely ignore any crashes that had less than 10,000 instances (total). When you’ve got 10 million users playing for dozens of hours a week, 10,000 crashes is just not statistically significant.

Client reported bug backlogs were in the high hundreds for each developer.

So… how likely is reporting a bug on the forums going to get the bug fixed? Quite frankly it depends on the severity of the bug and how many people it impacts. They likely don’t have the staff to fix any more than the top 30% of bugs (even that’s optimistic) because in a good week, you might knock out 3-5 bugs, if that’s all you’re doing. That’s averaged - some weeks you fix one problem that resolves a dozen issues, some weeks you cannot for the life of you figure one out. Hundreds of bugs (with new ones always coming in) * 3-5 a week, you can do the math

And then it’s time for the next product build…