Why is it so long to fix bugs?

One bug requires an amount of time, 1000 bugs require 1000x that amount :smiley:

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Really?
Have you seen the bug-fix list for SU6?

Well, it does make sense when you think about everything said on here.
Every peace of information about this problem is usefull.
1.
So, They probably took FSX to start with and broke it into segments. (let’s hope it will all be replaced at some point)
I must admit I always believed that becose the stock GNS 530 on MSFS and FSX had the very same limitations.
Maybe was it to give them a head start and/or to save some time/money.
In what percentage, we will probably never know.
But I know that looking at a code from someone else is very time consuming.

  1. I don’t believe they have bad intentions, maybe in this new age where everyone is criticizing everyone and rational thinking can easily be seen as worse as harassment, they decided to use a new approach and not let the devs be ‘connected’ to the scandalous commentson this forum (even if it is the official forum (or elsewhere for that matter)).
    I do however believe sometimes they come and read some.

short story :
Back in the days I was a mechanics.
we would just not care at MOST of the customer comments as they were normally : boring, time consuming, out of purpose and what not.
My boss would even approve me not speaking with customers as they are very time/money consuming tbh.

  1. Using old code might have given them a head start but I think HQ probably let the problems slip through the quality screening.
    I do some coding on my side , and the coma lost in lines of code is not that impresive to be honest.
    Most programing apps will highlight any variables that are not well defined. and a non-existing variable which would be a misspell or a missplaced coma would show up right away.

I know it is easy to criticize, and even easyer to criticize someone who criticized.
But what I wanted is what I got.
everyone who did reply help brainstorming the reason behind the bugs still in place.
Hell even the mods helped by comenting ‘stay on topic’ which is probably one of the time consuming problems in developing the sim to some extent.

For the money/business part. I dont know about other countrys, but here in Canada, we have a worker shortage/outage and the inflation is something to keep in mind as well.
My guess is with this god forsaken Virus, they probably have a lot of problems connected to it. Again we can only speculate.

On a final chapter,
I want to say this.
I appreciate their work and I think they do some tremendeous work with the sim and I cannot wait for us to be a couple years later where everything on this topic will be irrelevant.
I did send them a zendesk ticket about one thing that I want to write here which contained emotion on how I can’t wait for later developpments.

If they used the community to help out a bit, they could benefit in so many ways.
So many people could help and through a voting process, the community could vote out and make it upgrade with lesser work from inside.

Also, they could easily work new kinds of sims connected to this one here is a list which is not exclusive.
Boat sim (sailing, large vessels, fairy etc)
Train sim
even Car sims (trucking, country riding, VTT, dirt bike etc.)
let’s get this even higher, space sim (lol)
I would LOVE to see a train and think, hey that guy is down there and he could very well be looking at me.
My point is, this platform is just the beginning
BUT
Lack of transparency is making everyone nervous and is in my opinion part of the problem.
Cheers.

Some people seem to believe they know what Asobo is doing, how they are prioritizing bugs and features, and what decisions they’ve made and the motives behind those decisions.

The reality is most of these people have no effin clue how the process works or what anyone at Asobo is thinking. When Asobo or Microsoft provide firsthand info, it’s not usually what the self proclaimed experts think.

Yes…there are choice being made. Yes…bugs are prioritized. But the people on these forums generally don’t have any knowledge beyond the dev roadmap we see weekly.

And if that statement comes across as me feeling I’m “more correct than others” it’s because my comment is fact based.

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Yes, I have seen the Bug-Fix list, however, until SU6 is released we cannot be certain that the listed bugs have been fixed. It is a great list and I commented on another thread that I was really impressed at the amount of bugs being addressed.

So, we shall see how this bug-fix list holds up. Hopefully, it will not introduce more bugs.

I am one of those.

Despite the fact that I run the game on a 14 year old computer (i7 920 CPU) I have not had a single CTD, no installation problems and never any trouble with updates.

Oh and I am currently running 129 mods. No issues.

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You are right, I don’t know what they are doing.

All I know is the sim was released with a lot of broken aircraft and features on Xbox and very few things are being addressed in SU6 based on their published list of ‘fixes’.

The devs do seem willing to spend time ensuring we fly more slowly through clouds though…

As a real pilot, let me tell you that up/down drafts are much more likely to occur than to see your airspeed going down.

Well, that’s not what the community voted to have “fixed” :crazy_face:

I am fairly confident that the time they spent on reducing the drag when flying through cloud, was not an attempt to “ensure we fly more slowly”.

There are many bug fixes in this update that are focused on bugs specifically pushed up to the developers by our moderators. Those are the bugs that spawned passionate discussion right here, on this forum. The ones most important to this community.

The bullet read “decreased aircraft airspeed in cloud” - I guess SU6 does the opposite, thank you for clarifying.

How long has the Balkans bush trip been missing an airport? A curated experience tied to an in-game achievement which can’t be completed?

I’ll let you decide which is actually a bug.

No-one here is suggesting that there aren’t more bugs that need handling. The argument that “my bug is more important than your bug” is a ridiculous argument and we need to drop the premise.

All the bugs need to be fixed. The order in which they get fixed is a function of how intrusive it is to the overall use of the sim. Sometimes when a gamebreaking bug is identified it is part of a larger system that has minor bugs included.

While you are repairing a problem with the way altitude is calculated, you are dealing with the algorithms that deal with density. While in there, why not deal with a few small nagging bugs like cloud density, or airspeed calculations. I am confident that the missing airports are being slowly worked through and in the process they may fix taxi lights and parking spot designations.

There are still bugs listed in the bug reporting section that have a whack of votes that can not be duplicated by everyone with the sim. What are we to do with those? The ones that even the developers have admitted they cannot duplicate. How do you even begin to find them? I have wasted countless hours trying to help some of our members solve a bug. I, of course, ask them to be sure they have no adds installed. Hours of troubleshooting on my sim still fails to duplicate their complaint. Then one day I see another thread where they are proudly spouting about the add on scenery they always fly with. When asked, they say it’s only scenery for landmarks in some city. The same city that they have complained their problem occurs.

Until users stop insisting that a livery can’t screw up the PFD we will continue to have strange unreproducible and unfixable bugs. How about the recent discussion with a user that insisted the sim was broken until it was revealed they had substandard cooling in the "gaming’ system they bought at a computer store?

Too many variables. Too many bugs. Not enough ‘truthful’ or complete information. A finite amount of time and resources. All lead to threads such as this full of posts complaining that no-one is interested in fixing the bugs. Until the users actually take some responsibility for PROPER bug reporting we will continue circling this drain. If we can’t get past our prejudices and conspiracy theories then I don’t see much hope for many of the users having gamebreaking issues.

Hundreds of CTD bugs have been fixed and yet those that screamed foul a few months ago never came forward and acknowledged that they can now fly, even though I keep seeing those same names now posting screenshots and complaining the clouds don’t look right.

I am not an idiot. I am well aware that this is an anonymous internet forum. I should have no expectation that those participating are anything but trolls. I was hoping, though, that our community was somehow bound by a common interest. Apparently that common interest ends with our membership here. I am convinced that there are users here that are simply here to make noise and will be lost when we actually solve most of the bugs.

The fix list in this update is nothing short of impressive. Your pet bug might not be there but some day it will be. Be happy that some of the bugs are being killed and maybe tomorrow we will celebrate with you when yours is too.

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Fair point, and I was only bringing up one example.

The truth is there were too many bugs in the software to begin with and each update creates new ones (such as the example of the missing Bush trip airport) which has created a never ending cycle.

Right now my pet bug is every airliner on Xbox has their avionics go black and CTD after 45min-hour - a bug that should not have been present at launch, needs to be squashed immediately and I do not intend to shower praise for fixing something that should have never been acceptable in the launch version of the software and caused frustration for many users - that’s like the arsonist returning to a flaming pile of wreckage with a bucket of water.

The thing is, Sim Update 5 saw a complete rewrite of the middle tier, which was original MSFS X code. It was single threaded, had bad memory management, etc. Asobo rewrote that to be multithreaded, make better use of memory, etc. The thing is, finding bugs in multithreaded code is difficult. If one thread ends but has data that another thread needs, than that other thread can’t access that anymore. If one thread spawns several other threads, then ends but not all the child processes are complete, then all children threads dies too. What makes this so hard to debug is, it’s very hard to duplicate states sometimes. Perhaps the developers machine is faster than the bug reporter, so the developers threads always finish as they should, but the slower machine you see the problem. Or someone has less memory and runs many background tasks, so allocating memory is different. Asobo took care of a lot of bugs this release, but they capped wha they were going to resolve this go round a couple weeks ago so beta testers could make sure sim update 6 didn’t break anything new. Next month will be another sim update, with a whole new mass list of resolutions.

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Given the complexity of the project, the other question that these threads raise is how long would people have wanted to wait for Asobo to develop the flawless product?

I spent years battling CTDs and other issues across two versions of P3D, generated by having multiple addons to get it close to what this sim can do out of the box. And MSFS does it on the same five year old system.

Personally, I would rather have something now that works well and is being actively developed, rather than wait another x years for something that works perfectly (assuming that was ever possible).

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I think, with a sim as groundbreaking as this, it’s a miracle that we have as few bugs as we do.

The only thing I’d add is that maybe just a tad more communication would stop a lot of the griping.

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I’d like to know, why are the age old bugs being archived and buried from view.

Thanks for that official update, now I understand.
Lets see if I have it correct:
(#1) Microsoft Corp. … Contracts to (#2) Asobo … who then "Contracts with (#3) Working Title to fix an auto pilot device that has been somewhat non-function since release. That IS a 3rd party but you are correct, who cares as long as this very old bug gets fixed.

And, like I said before, We all really love the MSFS, we just would like some old time bugs fixed.

PAYDAY !
There is a LONG list of fixes !!!

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